A Debate at Edgware was held on Friday, July 22nd, between
Mr. F. Martell, representing the Liberal Party, and Mr. J. D‘Arcy, representing the Socialist Party of Great Britain.
D’Arcy opened the debate by pointing out that, although the Liberals now called themselves Liberal Radicals, they were in no way different from the old Liberal Party, and their policy was just as it had always been, a policy of Capitalist reform. The S.P.G.B. has Socialism as its object. It aims at the common ownership and democratic control of the means and instruments of wealth production. The Socialist Party is opposed to all other parties. A member of the Liberal Party had recently said that Capital and Labour should get together. This was an old cry and it really meant that the working class should give up the struggle against the Capitalist class. There can be no such unity between the classes. The workers are in the position of having to sell their labour power to the capitalists, they have no claim to the wealth that they produce. The object of the workers must be to overthrow the system that keeps them in subjection— a system based on their exploitation. In capitalist society, the wealth that is produced by the workers becomes the property of the small minority, the capitalist class, which owns the means of production. Socialism will convert the means of production to social ownership. Wealth will then no longer be produced for profit, but solely for use. The sellers’ market, that we have heard so much about recently, is ending and the buyers’ market is commencing. As the sellers' market diminishes, so does the market for labour power. It is untrue that the more the workers produce the more they get. The more they produce the sooner they are out of work and the less they get. The only solution is Socialism and this the Liberal Party opposes.
Martell said that the Liberal Party claims that workers are in control in this country and no capitalist can have any effect on what the workers decide to do. It is not the working class that is ground down, but the workers who are doing the grinding. They do as they like regarding wages and working hours, they demand what they want and get it. 99½ per cent. of the population works to-day and we are all capitalists because we all give our energies and receive back wages, which are our profits, and with which we can do as we please. How can the S.P.G.B. alter this? They cannot lay down rules whereby we all get what we want because human nature makes us all different. This must be arranged to suit all sorts of people. Political liberty is one of the greatest possessions of this country. Will the S.P.G.B. allow the free vote to continue when Socialism is established? The world may be imperfect, and what happens in other countries affects us, even though we have no concern in those countries. How will Socialist England compete with other countries? Man should be allowed to do as he likes providing he does not interfere with others, but there must be some rules or a few will take advantage. Let there be floor space for everyone and a ceiling for all, each to make his own ceiling. The workers should have a fairer share of the wealth, hence the Liberal Party’s profit sharing schemes. The Liberals propose that a certain share of the profits should be set aside in case of a bad year and all the workers in the particular industry concerned should share the rest. Capitalism has made this country what it is—the finest in the world.
D’Arcy replied to the Liberal talk about political freedom and liberty by pointing out that it was the Liberals who opposed the Chartist movement. The Liberals confused human nature with the way in which people behave. There is no organic difference between capitalist and worker, only an economic difference. It is nonsense to say that if the capitalists did not use their brains the workers would suffer economically. Profit sharing schemes would only result in getting the workers to weaken their struggle, and in more surplus value for the employers. Socialism is as international as is Capitalism.
Martell claimed that Liberals stand for freedom. There could be no freedom under Socialism. Anyone with a house would have to stay with it. Every one would have the same, whether they needed it or not. With common ownership, those in control would be dictators. There is only one class on earth—the class of human beings—and there is no system that all will like. Would the S.P.G.B. be prepared to stand for re- election after five years in office?
D’Arcy explained that political parties are the expression of class interests. With the establishment of Socialism, class society will end and political parties will cease to exist. That includes the S.P.G.B. What will happen to the profit sharing schemes when the world’s markets are glutted and the workers are unemployed? The Liberals do not oppose Nationalisation, only the inefficiency of its operation. Socialists oppose Nationalisation. Socialism will result in every man standing in equal relationship with all others towards the wealth that is produced—free and unrestricted access.
Martell concluded by accusing the S.P.G.B. of being dictators because D’Arcy had said that all other political parties would be suppressed. D'Arcy had not told him what the S.P.G.B. would do when it took power—the S.P.G.B. had no solution. S.P.G.B.ers are idealists, they have never thought things out. Liberals take a middle course between Toryism and Labourism and take the best of both sides. The S.P.G.B. stands for Capitalist State ownership; it is idealist.
The Delegate Meeting will be held at the Conway Hall, Red Lion Square, W.C.l, on Saturday and Sunday, September 24th and 25th. The following items of interest have been culled from the Executive Committee’s report to the meeting. Membership at the end of June was 1,051.
There has been an increase in the total number of meetings held during the first six months of the year amounting to 100 per cent. since 1947. This is also an increase of about 27 per cent. over 1948. But literature sales and collections have not increased in proportion, which indicates a drop in the average literature sales and collections per meeting.
The Socialist Standard has been increased in size from 12 pages to 16 pages, and commencing with the June issue there was an increase in the size of the type used. Also, commencing with the June issue, the number of Socialist Standards printed was increased by 500 copies to 6,500, but the increased sales that made this advisable have not been maintained. Although sales have increased since the war years, the total sold is still below pre-war level. The paper position has improved recently, but renewed restrictions on imports may cause it to worsen during coming months. The total pamphlet sales during the six months under review amounted to approximately 6,000 copies. There are still large stocks of many pamphlets available at Head Office.
A series of introductory classes were held during last Autumn and Winter. Four sessions, each of 12 weeks duration, were held and were attended by 50 students. Twenty of these students have since conducted classes themselves and others have prepared material for classes which will commence in October this year. As new tutors develop, the original ones will be free to conduct writers’ and speakers’ classes which are scheduled for the coming Autumn. Classes of a specialised nature have begun and, it is hoped, will develop in size and scope this year.
Only 50 copies of “Collected Socialist Pamphlets” are now available for public libraries.
During the first six months of the year there was a decrease in our financial receipts amounting to £506 compared with the corresponding months of 1948, due mainly to a falling off in literature sales and donations to funds. At the same time, expenditure has increased by £221. The General Account balance has fallen by £444 in six months. The Parliamentary fund has increased by £64 to £219 0s. Id. If the Parliamentary campaign is not to completely drain our financial resources we must have your donation now and regularly, until the end of the year at least. The financial position is the discordant note in an otherwise harmonious report. YOU can remedy that.
During the period under review a new companion Party for Socialism was formed in Ireland and the S.P.I. is now digging itself in.
A social and dance will be held at the Conway Hall on the Saturday evening following the first day of the delegate meeting. It promises to be as great a success as was the one at Easter. It certainly should not be missed. Once again. We need funds. R.S.V.P.
St. Pancras. The branch recently challenged all three local Labour M.P.s to debate. Mr. Robinson stated that he had too many other engagements and gave a courteous refusal. Dr. Jeger and Mr. Hadyn Davies, on the other hand, stated that they were too busy fighting Capitalism to find time to debate. Both were convinced that it was a waste of time. Dr. Jeger stated that it was “not his custom to provide audiences for opposing organisations.” The good Doctor evidently fancies himself as a star turn or box office attraction. “Blessed is he who bloweth his own trumpet.”
In any event we are still prepared to let him demonstrate his drawing capacity by accepting our challenge.
Mr. Davies, our other “hero,” is convinced that a debate with the S.P.G.B. is “purely a matter of academic interest.” He concludes his letter with, “In any case I am far too busy fighting the enemies of the workers, namely, the Conservative Party, to be able to waste my time on anything else.” Had Mr. Davies been an “academician,” he would not have inferred unconsciously that he is already wasting his time as his letter seems to indicate. We agree that he is wasting his time.
The truth is that both these “stalwarts” were so busy supporting the Emergency (Strike-breaking) Powers Acts against the Dockers, that they had little time for anything else, least of all Socialism.
Hackney Branch will commence a series of indoor meetings at Bethnal Green Town Hall on Wednesday, 5th October, at 8 p.m. and will continue on Wednesday evenings during the winter months. The branch has also applied to Poplar Borough Council for the use of Bromley Town Hall on Sunday evenings. They hope to commence here on October 2nd. All old and new supporters are invited and Hackney members hope that the East End meetings will be given wide publicity.
W. Waters.
I'm a big fan of Bill Waters exhaustive Party News reports. They are a good source of information about the Party's history.
